dilipcr
06-16 03:41 PM
Nice well thought out arguments. This is the essence of a healthy debate.
Dilip -
Could you please respond to questions raised in my post, when you get a chance?
I would like to add one more thing here - Employment based immigration is not merit based, it is driven by employer-employment unless you self-petition in Eb1/Eb2.
For the most part it is if it were left to market forces. Employers, rationally, would only want as much as talent for the price they pay. Most importantly, employers would be willing to go the extra mile to sponsor green cards only if they perceive that the immigrant employee would add value both in the present and the future. Now again, when I say employers, I mean the genuine employers and not the fly by night consulting body shops or the outsourcing companies. I strongly believe that EB based GC for a very large part is built on merit. You may see sme cases wherein some ordinary people getting green cards. They, in my opinion , are mostly from these body shops who got "lucky". Cant believe I am using that word !!!.
You may be very much qualified, if there is no employer who is ready to sponsor your green card, you are out of luck, so please do not put argument that only best and qualified people get GC.
Employers will be restricted in applying for GC for very qualified employees only in the period of recession. This happened with companies like CSCO etc in2001. wherein many of my friends left the company because cisco was barred from applying for GC after mass layoffs. But then after a year or so they started applying again. If you are referring to such scenarios, I would recommend patience because the immigrant per se is extremely well talented.
I don't think it matters, but I am from college based in Kharagpur WB.
In my opinion it does not. But be careful in this forum though. People may view your statement as egotistic.
Have a good day!
Where did you get that 80k number? You think 80k is good salary for that job, someone else may say 65k, I may say 90k. The salary, among other things, is determined by market forces. If you can't find enough people with xyz then company will be forced to offer more.
As long as there are people who are ready to work on salary 52k (example), employer will not pay 70k. As long as employer is following all the legal requirements, no one can dictate salary for the job.
I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is cosummate with the market. No well meaning employer will undercut to save a few pennies at the risk of losing out on quality.
What if the market pay scales are distorted through pervasive fraud ? If you look at it from an employer's view, it gets murkier. Believe it or not, low cost always signal lower quality. Trust me this is marketing 101. Google low cost and the perceptive signals. It is truly tough for the employer to trust the low cost employee's skillset.
Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud. Like other industries such as manufacturing/agriculture etc, IT wages are destined to decline but not at this rate. The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living. So per your argument, yes the end employer is following the rules by employing people from the outsourcing company because the employer does not know or looks the other way of the outsourcing company commiting pervasive fraud. Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too. It was not based on any scientific or statistical evidence.
I am a US citizen of Indian origin with background in Computer Science, Finance, and Business Laws. I have been in this country for 11+ years and I have seen so many changes in tech world. Nobody talks of sign-on bonus on H1B anymore. I am dot net architect and I am seeing lot of competition for jobs and this is causing downtrend pressure on salary. But, instead of, blaming someone else for the competition, I am taking it head on. We need to keep working on our skillset and employer will pay the salary. Like they say, for the right candidate salary is not a constraint.
I agree with you on the above points. You are doing the right thing in not blaming others for the downtrend in salaries. However, you are fundamentally assuming that you would have enough time to upgrade and adapt. What if that assumption falls apart ? What if outsourcign companies hit your employer with people with your skillsets at abysmal prices through fraud ? Today many companies do not look into the long term but make short term decisions. They may prefer the loss in quality for the "immediate" cost savings. It may take time for them to realize their follies. In trading, they say that a trader needs to have enough juice to survive the market irrationality. In a similar vein, if you have the wherewithal to survive the employer's short term irrational decisions, then more power to you.
Let us not forget our struggling days of H1. The least, we can do, is to encourage our fellow immigrants who are waiting for their green cards.
That is exactly the reason I am here. I want to encourage the truly deserving. I dont know who the truly deserving are on this board. But they know themselves. My encouragement is for them is to ensure that they dont get bogged psychologically despite being immensely talented.
.
Dilip -
Could you please respond to questions raised in my post, when you get a chance?
I would like to add one more thing here - Employment based immigration is not merit based, it is driven by employer-employment unless you self-petition in Eb1/Eb2.
For the most part it is if it were left to market forces. Employers, rationally, would only want as much as talent for the price they pay. Most importantly, employers would be willing to go the extra mile to sponsor green cards only if they perceive that the immigrant employee would add value both in the present and the future. Now again, when I say employers, I mean the genuine employers and not the fly by night consulting body shops or the outsourcing companies. I strongly believe that EB based GC for a very large part is built on merit. You may see sme cases wherein some ordinary people getting green cards. They, in my opinion , are mostly from these body shops who got "lucky". Cant believe I am using that word !!!.
You may be very much qualified, if there is no employer who is ready to sponsor your green card, you are out of luck, so please do not put argument that only best and qualified people get GC.
Employers will be restricted in applying for GC for very qualified employees only in the period of recession. This happened with companies like CSCO etc in2001. wherein many of my friends left the company because cisco was barred from applying for GC after mass layoffs. But then after a year or so they started applying again. If you are referring to such scenarios, I would recommend patience because the immigrant per se is extremely well talented.
I don't think it matters, but I am from college based in Kharagpur WB.
In my opinion it does not. But be careful in this forum though. People may view your statement as egotistic.
Have a good day!
Where did you get that 80k number? You think 80k is good salary for that job, someone else may say 65k, I may say 90k. The salary, among other things, is determined by market forces. If you can't find enough people with xyz then company will be forced to offer more.
As long as there are people who are ready to work on salary 52k (example), employer will not pay 70k. As long as employer is following all the legal requirements, no one can dictate salary for the job.
I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is cosummate with the market. No well meaning employer will undercut to save a few pennies at the risk of losing out on quality.
What if the market pay scales are distorted through pervasive fraud ? If you look at it from an employer's view, it gets murkier. Believe it or not, low cost always signal lower quality. Trust me this is marketing 101. Google low cost and the perceptive signals. It is truly tough for the employer to trust the low cost employee's skillset.
Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud. Like other industries such as manufacturing/agriculture etc, IT wages are destined to decline but not at this rate. The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living. So per your argument, yes the end employer is following the rules by employing people from the outsourcing company because the employer does not know or looks the other way of the outsourcing company commiting pervasive fraud. Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too. It was not based on any scientific or statistical evidence.
I am a US citizen of Indian origin with background in Computer Science, Finance, and Business Laws. I have been in this country for 11+ years and I have seen so many changes in tech world. Nobody talks of sign-on bonus on H1B anymore. I am dot net architect and I am seeing lot of competition for jobs and this is causing downtrend pressure on salary. But, instead of, blaming someone else for the competition, I am taking it head on. We need to keep working on our skillset and employer will pay the salary. Like they say, for the right candidate salary is not a constraint.
I agree with you on the above points. You are doing the right thing in not blaming others for the downtrend in salaries. However, you are fundamentally assuming that you would have enough time to upgrade and adapt. What if that assumption falls apart ? What if outsourcign companies hit your employer with people with your skillsets at abysmal prices through fraud ? Today many companies do not look into the long term but make short term decisions. They may prefer the loss in quality for the "immediate" cost savings. It may take time for them to realize their follies. In trading, they say that a trader needs to have enough juice to survive the market irrationality. In a similar vein, if you have the wherewithal to survive the employer's short term irrational decisions, then more power to you.
Let us not forget our struggling days of H1. The least, we can do, is to encourage our fellow immigrants who are waiting for their green cards.
That is exactly the reason I am here. I want to encourage the truly deserving. I dont know who the truly deserving are on this board. But they know themselves. My encouragement is for them is to ensure that they dont get bogged psychologically despite being immensely talented.
.
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gc_chahiye
06-28 08:16 PM
As per Macaca's logic, pre Oct 2005 PDs will take up all the numbers available for EB2 Indai for 2007, in June and July.
If that is the case why was the Bulletin for july not set to Oct or Nov 2005 and instead made current. Surely USCIS does not want to deal with all the extra workload if it does not have to.
DOS/USCIS know the truth, but going by the Ombudsman's report, they want to use up visa numbers as fast as they can. So if they have 30K applications sitting, just waiting for visa numbers, now with everything set to C, they can blindly start approving without even seeing what the date on those apps is.
Also, with EB3-ROW being 'C' they dont even need to worry about per-country limits. Just pick up the next almost-approved file, assign visa number, mail out. repeat.
If that is the case why was the Bulletin for july not set to Oct or Nov 2005 and instead made current. Surely USCIS does not want to deal with all the extra workload if it does not have to.
DOS/USCIS know the truth, but going by the Ombudsman's report, they want to use up visa numbers as fast as they can. So if they have 30K applications sitting, just waiting for visa numbers, now with everything set to C, they can blindly start approving without even seeing what the date on those apps is.
Also, with EB3-ROW being 'C' they dont even need to worry about per-country limits. Just pick up the next almost-approved file, assign visa number, mail out. repeat.
priderock
03-27 02:13 PM
Please do not use offensive language. Despite our disagreements we must be mature in our language. I request you to please edit your post.
.........................
Why don't you tell us how much you bought your labor for? Show us a proof that you have not bought it.
...............................
........................
It is with such mentaility they are brought up with in their country- Currption and getting things done with money. ........................................... In my country people contribute only when they fear god in temples, for medical treatment or to astrologers!!
........................whenever someone is diagnosed with a substitute labor cancer. Yes it is a cancer that is worsening retrogression further.
..................................
Now if someone argues with me on this post, then it will mean that either that person has himself bought a substitute labor or is looking for one.............
:confused:
.........................
Why don't you tell us how much you bought your labor for? Show us a proof that you have not bought it.
...............................
........................
It is with such mentaility they are brought up with in their country- Currption and getting things done with money. ........................................... In my country people contribute only when they fear god in temples, for medical treatment or to astrologers!!
........................whenever someone is diagnosed with a substitute labor cancer. Yes it is a cancer that is worsening retrogression further.
..................................
Now if someone argues with me on this post, then it will mean that either that person has himself bought a substitute labor or is looking for one.............
:confused:
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satyasaich
09-23 11:53 AM
My friend
I'm a home owner, bought a home in 2005 and still on H1B.
But let's not complicate the efforts because i'm not sure how much it will help to clear the mess of retrogression
Correct me if i were wrong and missing something
Current homeowners who are waiting for their GC MUST also be exempted from cap. This clause has to be there. Without having any gurantee of getting GC these folks have invested their savings in buying home even when the prices were high, WHY because they had real intent of making US their permanent home. So these people should too be exempted from EB cap.
I'm a home owner, bought a home in 2005 and still on H1B.
But let's not complicate the efforts because i'm not sure how much it will help to clear the mess of retrogression
Correct me if i were wrong and missing something
Current homeowners who are waiting for their GC MUST also be exempted from cap. This clause has to be there. Without having any gurantee of getting GC these folks have invested their savings in buying home even when the prices were high, WHY because they had real intent of making US their permanent home. So these people should too be exempted from EB cap.
more...
acecupid
08-15 10:22 AM
Collin Powell incident is America's problem. Even after the civil rights movement and equality to Blacks, they are still having discrimination. Just ask Black people in America and how they feel in their daily life.
So according to you by coming to America we should forget India because you will call us traitor? Have you heard how Jews in America are so strong and care for Israel even after becoming US citizens?
The fact is Indians are responsible for their own problems and greencard woes. They want to live in this sorry state and blame everyone else around them except themselves. They do not have any pride in their roots and thus flee their own country. They do not come to this country for betterment of their skills, education and experience but because they want to flee the country. There maybe exceptions but this is what I have seen in Indians who are on H1B or who have become US Citizens.
Why is your profile info empty ? Have you forgotten your motherland or where you came from ?
So according to you by coming to America we should forget India because you will call us traitor? Have you heard how Jews in America are so strong and care for Israel even after becoming US citizens?
The fact is Indians are responsible for their own problems and greencard woes. They want to live in this sorry state and blame everyone else around them except themselves. They do not have any pride in their roots and thus flee their own country. They do not come to this country for betterment of their skills, education and experience but because they want to flee the country. There maybe exceptions but this is what I have seen in Indians who are on H1B or who have become US Citizens.
Why is your profile info empty ? Have you forgotten your motherland or where you came from ?
pankaj_singal
05-31 06:48 PM
WOW... what a logic... what does Indian Govt. has to do with this money when this is taken out of my pay cheque.
When I take this money back to India I probably would end up paying some taxes on it... not sure what the logic is behind this... (again I do not undertsand the full details behind it).
When I take this money back to India I probably would end up paying some taxes on it... not sure what the logic is behind this... (again I do not undertsand the full details behind it).
more...
smuggymba
01-18 11:31 AM
Probably you are your relatives did these kinds of stuff. Most of us on this forum didn't.
When did you get your GC ?
A genuine mistake can be corrected using nunc-pro-tunc method. I used to work for a big Indian IT major and they forgot to file my wife's H4 and when I moved to a big 4 firm..they filed nunc-pro-tunc. According to you definition, if any company makes a mistake, we are illegal. LOL.
When did you get your GC ?
A genuine mistake can be corrected using nunc-pro-tunc method. I used to work for a big Indian IT major and they forgot to file my wife's H4 and when I moved to a big 4 firm..they filed nunc-pro-tunc. According to you definition, if any company makes a mistake, we are illegal. LOL.
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ksiddaba
07-04 11:46 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/us/04visas.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Please forward by email using the link on the right of the button. Let's try to get this in the most emailed list at NYT. Surely give us exposure.
Please forward by email using the link on the right of the button. Let's try to get this in the most emailed list at NYT. Surely give us exposure.
more...
jayleno
07-22 12:07 PM
Dont you think you took it too far? I dont think you make much sense. There it is, since you asked for my opinion.
Smile - I can prove this is a relevant topic ..how..
Some of these jokers (Quikstar..Amway) have filed GC in EB2 and Eb3 which is illegal, someday states Like Arizona will declare that anyone looking like us should be checked for Amway membership and deported
Profiling is an issue and because of some jokers we all may have to go thru scrutiny.
We should ask USCIS to check all GC applicants name in Amway database and if found USCIS needs to send them to Mexico (because illegal)..
We should write to senators... your opinion on this? ( this way Indiancommunity can be clean and fight for legal hardworking people in immigration policy)
Smile - I can prove this is a relevant topic ..how..
Some of these jokers (Quikstar..Amway) have filed GC in EB2 and Eb3 which is illegal, someday states Like Arizona will declare that anyone looking like us should be checked for Amway membership and deported
Profiling is an issue and because of some jokers we all may have to go thru scrutiny.
We should ask USCIS to check all GC applicants name in Amway database and if found USCIS needs to send them to Mexico (because illegal)..
We should write to senators... your opinion on this? ( this way Indiancommunity can be clean and fight for legal hardworking people in immigration policy)
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mirage
07-04 08:21 AM
One thing which is missing in the News article about this fiasco is they are sounding like some precedural hitch happened they are not sounding scandal, conspiratory, I mean their title should be like 'DOS plays joke on Legals', 'DOS arbitrary decisions hurt legals' types......
more...
_TrueFacts
09-04 06:19 PM
Now I think new people are running IV.
Aman Kapoor (Walden Pond) is not controlling now. That is the reason these idiots have got the admin previlages. Now they do nothing worthwhile. Bunch of jockers.
dealsnet,
Don?t assume that things will work like they work in YSR regime.
If you think that, the discussion does not make any sense to you then keep away. You are assuming that IMV has compromised security. FYI, this is not a YSR forum, nor it his jagir to do a security compromise.
Aman Kapoor (Walden Pond) is not controlling now. That is the reason these idiots have got the admin previlages. Now they do nothing worthwhile. Bunch of jockers.
dealsnet,
Don?t assume that things will work like they work in YSR regime.
If you think that, the discussion does not make any sense to you then keep away. You are assuming that IMV has compromised security. FYI, this is not a YSR forum, nor it his jagir to do a security compromise.
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gcfordesi
08-16 12:12 AM
huge publicity stunt for the movie... the movie runs on the same lines...
they already archived their goal as every news paper in India has this in front page ...
why waste our time on discussing politics and system here ...
they already archived their goal as every news paper in India has this in front page ...
why waste our time on discussing politics and system here ...
more...
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sri1309
09-23 07:23 AM
I would still puruse removing quotas unconditionally. Not everyone will want to buy a house here. We can always propose buying houses will help fix housing crisis, but that shouldnt be a must.
Instead, I would suggest pay $5K or $10K to expedite it. I am sure many people want to take this. If we are talking about 500,000 people, then with a $5K premium processing, it will generate $2,500,000,000. Is that 2.5 billion.. Not bad. This step wioll not hurt many.
Sri.
Instead, I would suggest pay $5K or $10K to expedite it. I am sure many people want to take this. If we are talking about 500,000 people, then with a $5K premium processing, it will generate $2,500,000,000. Is that 2.5 billion.. Not bad. This step wioll not hurt many.
Sri.
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carpediem
05-29 12:01 AM
That's really tough! I don't think I can keep the same job profile for 10 years. Neither can I form a start-up and have it sponsor my GC application.
The only hope might be to become a multinational executive really fast, or win the lottery and invest a million dollars in the US. :)
Guys I think it's time to go home, Swades style!
The only hope might be to become a multinational executive really fast, or win the lottery and invest a million dollars in the US. :)
Guys I think it's time to go home, Swades style!
more...
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imm_pro
01-13 04:24 PM
Just wondering what IV Core's stand is regarding this memo
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rahulpaper
06-28 06:10 PM
and everyone started having a sane discussion...
hope fully this would help
http://www.imminfo.com/resources/cissop.html
Read couple of pages forward....thanks Ramba
All you guys forgetting main thing. Visa bulliton is not a law. It advises consular posts and USCIS to accept and approve 485s and schulde interviews in consular posts to issue IV. It is just a advisary notice to other federal agency by DOS. It is not a binding document.
The law is "an immigrant visa should immediatly available at the time of filing AOS application" . If visas number is not available on 3rd july, DOS has a right, under the federal law, to advise USCIS and consular posts to stop accepting and approving any applications and stop issuing IV at consular posts on any date.
If you need more evidence, browse the adjudicator field manual for 485. It says "unless any interm notice issued by DOS, visa number is available to all in entire month". Therefore the key is "unless any interm notice issued by DOS". If DOS issues notice to USCIS on June 3rd, USCIS has to stop accepting any 485.
hope fully this would help
http://www.imminfo.com/resources/cissop.html
Read couple of pages forward....thanks Ramba
All you guys forgetting main thing. Visa bulliton is not a law. It advises consular posts and USCIS to accept and approve 485s and schulde interviews in consular posts to issue IV. It is just a advisary notice to other federal agency by DOS. It is not a binding document.
The law is "an immigrant visa should immediatly available at the time of filing AOS application" . If visas number is not available on 3rd july, DOS has a right, under the federal law, to advise USCIS and consular posts to stop accepting and approving any applications and stop issuing IV at consular posts on any date.
If you need more evidence, browse the adjudicator field manual for 485. It says "unless any interm notice issued by DOS, visa number is available to all in entire month". Therefore the key is "unless any interm notice issued by DOS". If DOS issues notice to USCIS on June 3rd, USCIS has to stop accepting any 485.
more...
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Ramba
02-19 12:22 AM
Well discussion here. Under present situation (w/o any legislative relief) labor certification based EB folks, particulary Indians, cannot think of GC/485 for next 10 years. The problem here is, they are stopping the flood gate in 485 stage. If they (CIS/DOS) do not need high skilled immigrants, stop them in LC stage itself. Testing labor market in 2001, for a permanent job that is going to be assumed by a foreign worker only in (after 485 approval) 2010 is a joke. The best slution is market based numarical limitation without any country quota.
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dilipcr
06-16 02:24 PM
There's two themes in this thread that are interesting.
1. A couple of members advanced the argument that retrogression is good since it weeds out the supposedly undeserving. Here's a startling quote:
2. The question of luck.
I would like to share our story, because it touches on both these themes: I have two US graduate degrees; so does my wife. We've paid over 100K in federal income taxes in each of the past several years and I'm now a partner at my firm; the idea that folks are stuck in retrogression because they are undereducated low-cost workers is not realistic. And there are many cases similar to ours (some of which I read about on IV). We are stuck in retrogression because we have no answer to the country-quota bottleneck.
So, sure, retreogression may provide perverse pleasure to a select few greencard holders, but the inconvenience that retrogression causes most of us does not serve a greater Darwinian good.
What of luck? While luck has put us in retrogression, it has favored us in many ways --- we have a great family, a lovely home, and a bunch of good friends. I am sure all of us have seen similar plus sides of luck. But luck is stubborn when it comes to the greencard: when the window opened up last year, many folks with PD 2006 were approved, while many like us with older PD were left waiting. Luck is a strange animal -- it lets you see the map of the world in your handheld, but won't let you travel freely because of retrogression.
There's this story about luck and how one can get around it in some cases. It is not very relevant here, but here's the story: A wise man came to a village and observed a family living in great poverty. All the family had was a cow and a sack of grain. They would work very hard, but their net worth never rose beyond the "cow + sack of grain" level. The wise man, being wise, figured out what's going on. He asked the family to give away the cow and have a party with whatever grain they had. The family initially thought this advice was daft, but eventually complied out of respect for the wise man. The night after they had squandered everything, Brahma could be seen quietly bringing the family another cow and a sack of grain. What the wise man had figured out was that this level of net worth was preordained for that family -- whether they work hard or party. Not a great story to tell your kids to teach them about hard work; but provides an alternate perspective when you're stuck in line.
To be honest, you are the kind of people, with the right attitude and qualifications, who deserve the GC and should not be subject to these mindless wait times. I am truly sorry for you. Hope the best for you
1. A couple of members advanced the argument that retrogression is good since it weeds out the supposedly undeserving. Here's a startling quote:
2. The question of luck.
I would like to share our story, because it touches on both these themes: I have two US graduate degrees; so does my wife. We've paid over 100K in federal income taxes in each of the past several years and I'm now a partner at my firm; the idea that folks are stuck in retrogression because they are undereducated low-cost workers is not realistic. And there are many cases similar to ours (some of which I read about on IV). We are stuck in retrogression because we have no answer to the country-quota bottleneck.
So, sure, retreogression may provide perverse pleasure to a select few greencard holders, but the inconvenience that retrogression causes most of us does not serve a greater Darwinian good.
What of luck? While luck has put us in retrogression, it has favored us in many ways --- we have a great family, a lovely home, and a bunch of good friends. I am sure all of us have seen similar plus sides of luck. But luck is stubborn when it comes to the greencard: when the window opened up last year, many folks with PD 2006 were approved, while many like us with older PD were left waiting. Luck is a strange animal -- it lets you see the map of the world in your handheld, but won't let you travel freely because of retrogression.
There's this story about luck and how one can get around it in some cases. It is not very relevant here, but here's the story: A wise man came to a village and observed a family living in great poverty. All the family had was a cow and a sack of grain. They would work very hard, but their net worth never rose beyond the "cow + sack of grain" level. The wise man, being wise, figured out what's going on. He asked the family to give away the cow and have a party with whatever grain they had. The family initially thought this advice was daft, but eventually complied out of respect for the wise man. The night after they had squandered everything, Brahma could be seen quietly bringing the family another cow and a sack of grain. What the wise man had figured out was that this level of net worth was preordained for that family -- whether they work hard or party. Not a great story to tell your kids to teach them about hard work; but provides an alternate perspective when you're stuck in line.
To be honest, you are the kind of people, with the right attitude and qualifications, who deserve the GC and should not be subject to these mindless wait times. I am truly sorry for you. Hope the best for you
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eyeswe
07-21 04:33 PM
I think we have met somewhere OR I have seen you somewhere...
Would you like to be financially independent?
Are u from XYZ Engg College in Mumbai
The Amway cheer ...
... There is lot of excitement in this room with X,Y,X, A etc.. and this excitement is going all the way to P, Q, R on the phone.. Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Heyyyyyy, Heyyyyyy, Heyyyyyyy " and folks jump around to show the excitement
Needless to say I have been in several Amway bait situations. My room mates were Amway folks and we use to have several meetings at my place -- upline, downline used to be the manthra...
Would you like to be financially independent?
Are u from XYZ Engg College in Mumbai
The Amway cheer ...
... There is lot of excitement in this room with X,Y,X, A etc.. and this excitement is going all the way to P, Q, R on the phone.. Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Heyyyyyy, Heyyyyyy, Heyyyyyyy " and folks jump around to show the excitement
Needless to say I have been in several Amway bait situations. My room mates were Amway folks and we use to have several meetings at my place -- upline, downline used to be the manthra...
nrk
09-17 01:10 PM
Hi VDLRAO,
Couple of months back you were very optimistic about EB2 I will be current soon, what were the things influencing your thoughts.
Do you think EB2 I, will not be crossing 2005 by September 2010 ?
When it took about 2 years spill over visas (2008 and 2009) for the EB2 India dates to move from April 2004 to Jan 2005, I am sure you could estimate how long it would take to cross a year.
Couple of months back you were very optimistic about EB2 I will be current soon, what were the things influencing your thoughts.
Do you think EB2 I, will not be crossing 2005 by September 2010 ?
When it took about 2 years spill over visas (2008 and 2009) for the EB2 India dates to move from April 2004 to Jan 2005, I am sure you could estimate how long it would take to cross a year.
ramus
06-28 05:51 PM
June 6th.
Does someone know what date in June they started turning back EB3-Other WOrkers?
Does someone know what date in June they started turning back EB3-Other WOrkers?
